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Thread: Where is the future of ProD?

  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Springfield IL.

    Saves to say NACE will be interesting. I anticipate hearing the grumbling that would otherwise be documented on this board. People are down to their last wits - now aware that hoping it will all get better is not a good place to put their money.

    Yeah it is true - I'll be there - Thursday afternoon on a panel with Eversman - Anderson and Coccarro among others. We have the last activity of the day there so spending extra time in the room wont be an issue. If you go to Vegas at all - come see us for the plain talk in person that you get here every day.

    Shoot me a message here and I'll give you my cell.

  2. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Here's one for you O'Wizzard.....

    Yeah, ask the distinguished assemblage, "assuming a vehicle is in a service provider's facility and the loss has not been confirmed in accordance with the policy provisions, is there any other legal basis for an insurer being involved with the service provider, with or without the insureds knowledge and concurrence, and if so what is it"? Please, don't tell me "to be nice" to them.....

    Oh, and......

    Per se violation. per Blacks: "a trade practice (such as price fixing) that is considered inherently anticompetitive and injurious to the public without any need to determine whether it had actually injured market competition". ( Pretty doggone simple ain't it? I should think the mere fact that an insurer has an agreement with certain repairers that punish repairers for non compliance is a perse violation. On the face, one would have to reason that such an unnatural relationship couldn't possibly be good for the public.....but hell, like Advocate says I don't know nothin.)

    Anyhow, it would seem to me that with DRP's suing estimating providers and claiming damages because the can no longer participate in a specific DRP program It should be no great leap for a legal mind to understand that
    1. the estimating provider must be playing a critical part in pricing,
    2. the service provider must receive something from his arrangement with the insurer otherwise, what's the point
    3. why would an insurance company prefer any method, or more accurately, prefer one source of data, other than free market competition to determine a selling price in a contiguous market,
    4. does that have the propensity to affect the public,
    5. why would an insurer have any need for a relationship with a provider of pricing in a vertically aligned business that is serving their common customer, and would it be a perse violation of Sherman if in fact, insurers have an ongoing relationship with estimating providers (other than a simple paid subscription on the same terms as service providers, and influence) whose data provides the pricing parameters for virtually all repairs?
    The first should be a very simple answer, which in turn answers the points following. If the insurer has no legal basis, then the answer to perse is "yes".


  3. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    PS if any corporation has specific independent-of-their-corporate mantle outlets, that is a vertically aligned business, with which they do business to provide service for the products the corporation sells to consumers, can they punish those outlets for not complying with the corporate established pricing for the service? Can they take business away from them and give it to others that will comply regardless of their ability to deliver what the public has been sold in the way of a guarantee of serviceability of the product?

    If they do, is that perse violation of Sherman?


  4. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    PSS If a corporation sells a product and selects a service provider from a vertically aligned industry to provide warranty or other repair work on the product sold to the consumer, and has a method in place to encourage and promote to the consumer to use those specific service providers to the exclusion of those that are not on the selected list, is the corporation then liable for product failure along with the provider of service?

    And what if the corporation has ongoing relationships where the make up of standards might be influence with the vertically aligned service industry standard's board? Say for example, ANSI that might have at least the appearance of impropriety, would any of this be a perse Sherman violation?

    I am sure you can fine tune these......Oh Whizzard.


  5. Join Date
    May 2009

    First off let me thank you for keeping the board alive. Even though I have been out of the mainstream of the collision repair business, I still do some collision repairs(although most are never collision repairs paid for by insurers) and my full time job these days is claims related, I still try to keep up with what is going on in the industry. It's hard not to still have an interest in the industry when you've been in it for 30plus years, spent much time trying to make a difference and knowing so many great people like you, Mark Cobb, Mark & Pam, etc., etc. but I really needed to make a change. I miss the industry in many ways but not the battles.

    There seems to be so many issues that will never be overcome and the industry will likely have just as many issues twenty years from now as it does today. There are probably many who read this board and never post but make decisions due to the efforts and intelligence this board has brought over the years. Thanks goes out to all who have worked to bring about changes in the collision repair industry and thanks go to those who continue to in the future.
    JMT. Ronnie

  6. As long as so few are allowed into your clique under any circumstances, how can you expect the clique to grow? As much as I respect you folks, I must say, you're certainly NOT the only ones who've worked hard in an effort to improve this collision repair industry.

    I sure wish I knew 15 years ago what I know now. I'm sure I would not have totally WASTED 15 years of my life on body shop owners, techs, or insurance rats, just to achieve absolutely NOTHING.

    Yep, I'll still look as long as it's here to see for free, but why should I post material most of you obviously don't value? Laugh me off all you want, but remember... THERE IS NO FATE, BUT THAT WHICH WE MAKE FOR OURSELVES.

    I didn't slow down the traffic that comes to this message board; I only slowed the traffic that comes from my house. Obviously, it's going around. To me, it's the ultimate irony. As much as I agree with most of you, I, like others, only care to take so many swift hard kicks to the balls. So, like several others, I come here, look around, laugh for a minute, and then I go ove to YouTube for a better laugh.

    I gotta go now.

    This ain't funny anymore.

    I'll check back for another laugh.

    But I don't expect much these days.

  7. rooby roo.....you have sadly mistaken someone one

    on this board or something they have said..... To challenge something posted is only to foster thought and discussion.....

    Sadly you should never take it personally..................this is the INTERNET afterall..................Jump in and have some fun why would you let ANYONE else control what you do?????????? Ha something like the collision industry...I can see how you might think that way....time to toss that thought process and give it what you got.....100 years from now do you think anyone is gonna give a hoot......? We will be lucky to even be known as the past in this industry......

    As for the traffic to this site.....it is at AN ALL TIME high....I think that's because Pierson has been pushing some hot buttons but I can't be sure.....maybe he is showing more leg these days......

  8. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Quote "As long as so few are allowed into your clique under any circumstances, how can you expect the clique to grow? "

    I too, have missed many of the comments that have been made by anomalous posters in the past. Maybe a part of this site can be made open to post comments and thoughts by anomalous posters and not read by those that do not wish to participate in that section of the forum.

    It may require the time of several volunteers in order to delete severe posts or commercials but could generate some interesting thoughts that could be discussed on the main forum. Who knows, there may be another Advocate out there.

    To keep it short, all comments could be automatically be deleted after one week

    The new section could be called " Anomalous Comments by Intimidated Souls"


  9. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    When I need ...

    to "show some leg" to get attention, tie me up and take me away! haha!

    It appears to me that many veterans on the boards have evolved like the story one of Roy's attorneys told years ago. Something like...

    "when I was young I was like a kid with a new shotgun and field full of rabbits, I would go out and just start shooting and see how many I could throw into the back of the truck. Now I am older and using a rifle with a scope, and being very selective at what I shoot at."

    Roger... anyone can stay in the dark here, much like many do on Richard's board. If it is too much trouble for someone to register under a alias, then they probably would not post anyway.
    Last edited by MarkFP; 10-22-2009 at 09:06 AM.
    Collision repair... so easy even a monkey can do it... and some do!

  10. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    I like it how it is

    I was pretty tired of the trolls using our posts against us in court!!!

    If you don't register your a pussy or a troll.

    Sorry I have not contributed much lately, I can tell you I have made some great changes in my arena. Regressive Paid off a year old storage bill, a different vehicle I had I filed a mechanics lein on an abandoned vehicle and collected $,4000.00 in storage.

    I am making more on storage than fixing cars!

    My Customers 70 Blazer is going to the Good guys car show next week. Vette suspension, Vette motor on bags, Foose wheels and the list goes on.

    I am teaching autobody at a local college as a substitute and I have been asked to start a new set of programs and a job till retirement. Very tempting offer.

    All is good.

    Educating customers and Insurers can be a fun job. Now I have some open minds and good students that have no idea of our struggles.

    Hi all and I will touch base here and there.

    Hey Addy keep up the good work, Same for the rest of you die hard's you are on the right path. Make the laws work for you, don't make bad case law that hurts us all.

    "If Discussions with one's enemies could be worthwhile banks would invite robbers and burglers to their association meetings to discuss security"
    Jim Lynas

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