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Thread: Check this out read from the bottom up ...Audatex at it's finest

  1. Join Date
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    Of course Tony is correct on his points. To encourage governmental involvement is but another nail in a coffin well nailed with misguided attempts and I will go so far as include the use of assignment of proceeds. On this, Tony and I agree. While it might afford some salve in the short term, it enhances the underlying cancer. To use the very tool, the only tool insurers value above all else, is nothing but validation by the very people most damaged. It is incomprehensible to me that repairers cannot see clearly, the folly of using a database that does not come from competition to value…. themselves and their efforts. Voluntarily.

    The only logical conclusion I can reach is that repairers are ignorant of the fact that data is heroin on steroids to your well being. Yes, I understand all the reasons to use the data, but Good God Almighty, do something about it!
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

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    After speaking with Tony, I came to realize that involving the state in shop licensing would constitute a "foot in the door" for insurance companies to take full advantage of. What happens when we succeed and the decision is made to have the insurance commissioner to administrate the program? Since, in my state, he is the insurance industry's best friend, he would be free to do their bidding and implement terms and conditions favorable to them, affording them yet another venue for increased and continuing control. I do continue to believe that consumers should be made aware that ALL collision repairs are not equal, exposing the shops that charge less because they are incompetent and do less. The questions remains, how to accomplish that. PRI may be the only viable means.

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    Bill, it doesn't matter either way as far as the industry is concerned. It will not affect the ability of an insurer to tell you what you can charge for the work you perform. Truly, the repair industry is not even on the paper as far as a target is concerned.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  4. With the assignment of money due it is not the shop suing an insurer. It is the shop suing the insurer in the shoes of their insured. So the insured is having to sue their insurer to be made whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Parker View Post
    With the assignment of money due it is not the shop suing an insurer. It is the shop suing the insurer in the shoes of their insured. So the insured is having to sue their insurer to be made whole.
    But that doesn't make YOU whole, and YOU have to pay the litigation costs, right? As long as you are using data, you are validating that data to settle what you are owed.....I can't say that enough because of the danger it brings to the industry.

    I have looked at what is owed many ways in detail after the claim and invoice is paid. To start the insurer writes at best in most cases, 60% of what is owed ACCORDING TO THEM AND THE DATA. Sometimes it is less, but rarely if more (now for a short time they may do better, but in the long haul that 60% is close. Now my information is 15 years old, but I bet it is still close, or worse. Then you write one to many supplements BASED ON THE DATA to try and get paid, AND the prevailing rate, and the time folks spend on this process doesn't reimburse you for that time and effort because the data doesn't pay any overhead. After that if you are still SHORT OF WHAT THE DATA PAYS you go through another set of gyrations, again, that you are not paid for that you call short pay.

    Again you are only paid the shortage according to what you and the insurer agrees STILL using the data.

    So here we are you have been paid after a long fight, for PART of what you are owed, yet you are still owed money whether or not the consumer is happy.

    So what does all that mean. IF. You costed your labor production based on real time, real direct and indirect costs PLUS profit. IF Marked up parts and materials based on YOUR cost (not what is in the data) and indirect costs, plus profit. IT MEANS you are STILL short at a MINIMUM 25 % across the board including assignment. Frankly, if a real forensic economist really understood the way things work, the figure would be more close to50%.......either way, it is a very nice profit margin for someone....because the industry does one thing. It uses the data.

    These are my opinions. Some may have to look elsewhere for a 'safe space'.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

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    To your point regarding charging for ACTUAL time, during depositions a shop owner in Mississippi was confronted by the insurance company attorney with copies of some of his technician's flag sheets and their time cards. The attorney was attempting to make the case that the shop owner was essentially committing fraud and price gouging, referencing the number of production hours produced which exceeded the number of actual hours worked, a comparison that has been made on many other occasions in order to disparage the shop owner and destroy his credibility. The shop owner was prepared for the confrontation and asked the attorney if he considered the participation of all personnel engaged in producing the number of hours in labor during the actual working time period. Of course, the attorney had not. The shop owner followed up with, "If it is the desire of this insurance company that my charges consist of charging for only the actual number of hours worked, I will be happy to implement that today. Be advised that I will be charging for the actual time EVERY employee contributes to the completion of each and every job that involves this insurance company. This will include all office personnel, body technicians, mechanics, helpers, painters, clean-up personnel and any other person that either handles paperwork, engages in telephone conversations, or actually lays hands on the vehicle in any way." The deposition abruptly ended without the insurance company agreeing to pay for only actual hours as documented with a time clock.
    Once again, the data has been designed more as a control mechanism, not an actual representation of the actual time necessary to complete a repair. The very last thing insurers want is to have to pay for actual working time and they will fight to the last breath to avoid recognizing it and paying accordingly.

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    Bill, who was that masked man?? Just as reminder, the data controls the price of everything; parts, materials. NO allowance for overhead, profit.....

    I went back this morning and looked at random files from 2001 and 2002, 02 being my last year (and these files are on the way to the burn pile) The very first file was a year old Volvo. I still used Mitchell well massaged but well short of what I should have been charging, and was invoicing on quick books. Interestingly, the insurer's initial estimate was about 40% of mine, both without a tear down. The ultimate amount paid was $115 more than my initial estimate that I refunded to the owner to do as she would. Labor rate for body was $36, mechanical $75, frame $65. I don't recall the PCP at the time somewhere in the upper 20's, but I talked to a couple of big shop owners in Dallas last week and they are now at $42-45 for all labor. 14 years.......
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

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    I think you know who it was. I decline to name him so he doesn't get an even bigger target on his back than he already has.

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    40% appears correct Roy...

    but the problem lately is that insurers are just ignoring all claims in general. Here is seems that insurers have made a pact to ignore third-party claims and convert all to first party. The insurers are apparently running the dept. of insurance and have quit even pretending to adhere to statute.

    Back to one of our old theories Roy, one of these companies is treating their insured like holy crap to the point I would think they would have a bad faith case. I've known the director of claims for this company a few decades and it had come to the point I tried to contact him to find out what the Hell is going on! Well, I found out he recently retired and there are "new guns" running claims... the mystery is do they know or care of the boundaries crossed?
    Collision repair... so easy even a monkey can do it... and some do!

  10. Join Date
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    I, too, asked an insurance executive if they realize they are creating a monster by developing and promoting DRP domination of the collision repair industry, slowly forcing the best shops out of business. I asked what insurance companies will do when they accomplish their goal of reducing the collision repair industry to a handful of mega-consolidators and huge corporate run entities. I asked what the plan is when the few remaining companies decide to get together behind closed doors and turn on their insurance partners by charging whatever the hell they want to because the power has shifted to them? I never considered the response I got. Insurance executives' salary and bonus packages are largely predicated on cost mitigation. Due to the greed that permeates the insurance industry, the executives that have now retired, those soon to, and those who will in the future could care less the wake of destruction they leave in their paths, it's all about making as much money as they can, while they can. They have no incentive to worry about the future, they are like looters and take all they can while they have the opportunity, they have no interest of concern about what the future may hold. So no, Mark, they don't care what boundaries they may cross, so long as what they are doing puts money in their own pockets.

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