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Thread: Check this out read from the bottom up ...Audatex at it's finest

  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Ma.
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    476

    Mark, Re: quoting your words "...but forget to add anything for the degree of difficulty when you are assembling multiple panels as opposed to the changing of that one panel"

    I had a truck cab that required replacing all of the panels except the lower cowl and floor. I stated to the appraiser that there was a tremendous amount of work necessary in order to re-assemble the cab other than “their” times that use existing panels for alignment for the new part.

    He hemmed and hawed, but when I told him how much I WAS GOING TO CHARGE ANYWAY, he finally conceited the point.

    The point is that I was the expert and if he didn’t like it, he could explain to the customer why he didn’t “allow” the proper payment for the operation.
    The more that others take this stand, the better off the profession will be.

  2. Join Date
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    1,338

    Folks ain't gonna do that or they already would have.....even thought that is 'the' answer. The only reason I would use an estimating system is to define the parts since that is the only place you can get them at one time, and then give the time in dollar blocks that will pay enough.

    The need for a time guide has always been, but one that is inaccurate and with no incentive to make them right.....not that they ever could, which I know they couldn't.....is worse than nothing, but people just don't see it.

    It is stunningly amazing that this industry has some of the most independent cusses I have ever seen, yet they lay right down and let the system they KNOW is against their best interests dictate the labor content of an operation as well as the dollars they can charge.

    Yet folks still think this industry is not going to get flushed? And they think something beyond them is going to magically appear and make those bad ole insurance companies stop beating them to death and the estimating systems are going to change?

    Oh yeah. It is going from floating in the water to being flushed. Simply because talk is cheap; putting your balls on the line doesn't seem too appealing. The fact is they lost them a long time ago.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  3. Join Date
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    Location
    Southaven, Mississippi
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    801

    Time Studies

    I read somewhere not too long ago that none of the data providers do time studies anymore but use the manufacturer's warrany repair figures. Now, I don't know how many of you have ever had to work from OEM warranty repair schedules, but I can tell you that the times are ridiculously inadequate for obvious reasons. The manufacturers don't want to pay anything close to what it really takes to correct their mistakes, so those who work off the warranty repair figures do so because they are forced to.
    Isn't it frightening that we pay for a product that is influenced by everyone except those who are counting on it's accuracy to earn their living? Sounds kinda like a conspiracy to commit fraud, doesn't it?

  4. Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    371

    Mr. Cobb, your information

    needs to be brought to the attention of Mr. Eric Holder. I understand he's very interested in these types of behaviors taking place within our industry.

  5. Pardon my ignorance but although I recognize

    the name I can't place the face. Can you give me some contact info....I am not sure that Mr. Holder or anyone at this point could handle the documentation I have on this issue. If Roy and others remember I have some pretty juicy stuff from Turri as well....And many of these inquries..or discussions in writing I might call them...

    As for needing to be reminded or taught about these software programs be assured I have myself covered....but like Roy said if it was going to be done it would have been done by now.....I wish a few more other then the few I know would have stood up years ago......

    But as they say you can lead them to water.....but drowning them might be easier then getting them to drink....

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mark Cobb -ME View Post
    obvious spot where these issues can be pointed out. I laugh when we see overlap everyday but we never see an addition for multiple panel replacement.

    I love it when they put 2.0 here and 3.0 there but forget to add anything for the degree of difficulty when you are assembling multiple panels as opposed to the changing of that one panel...

    For me it was just about the customer paying me correctly but what arose was a chance to see if any legal types might finally see what a product defect we have going..

    And someday maybe they will realize how this product is being used to defraud the consumer and their right to recovery in a claim......

    Oh by the way....the fact that these data providers do not have direct contact with manufacturers should be a telling sign don't you think......Are there any lawyers out there reading this stuff....that's right we have

    DATA PROVIDERS THAT ARE DEVELOPING CLAIMS SETTLEMENT SOFTWARE BASED ON FICTIOUS DATA....................WAKE UP SOMEONE......
    This inspection by Mark is another fine example that these providers of information (ADP, Mitchell, CCC) should be taken with a grain of salt... "these times are based upon new un-damaged vehicles with new undamaged parts... and should be used as a "guide"...."

    They have been stealing from consumers for years with the estimating systems... one tenth, two tenths, three tenths, clear coat, overlap, etc... and wouldn't be used by insurance companies if they weren't stealing on their behalf... JMHO.

  7. Stealing scum...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Cobb -ME View Post
    obvious spot where these issues can be pointed out. I laugh when we see overlap everyday but we never see an addition for multiple panel replacement.

    I love it when they put 2.0 here and 3.0 there but forget to add anything for the degree of difficulty when you are assembling multiple panels as opposed to the changing of that one panel...

    For me it was just about the customer paying me correctly but what arose was a chance to see if any legal types might finally see what a product defect we have going..

    And someday maybe they will realize how this product is being used to defraud the consumer and their right to recovery in a claim......

    Oh by the way....the fact that these data providers do not have direct contact with manufacturers should be a telling sign don't you think......Are there any lawyers out there reading this stuff....that's right we have

    DATA PROVIDERS THAT ARE DEVELOPING CLAIMS SETTLEMENT SOFTWARE BASED ON FICTIOUS DATA....................WAKE UP SOMEONE......
    This inspection by Mark is another fine example that these providers of information (ADP, Mitchell, CCC) should be taken with a grain of salt... "these times are based upon new un-damaged vehicles with new undamaged parts... and should be used as a "guide"...."

    They have been stealing from consumers for years with the estimating systems... one tenth, two tenths, three tenths, clear coat, overlap, etc... and wouldn't be used by insurance companies if they weren't stealing on their behalf... JMHO.

  8. OK so I tossed you guys a bone

    doesn't anyone have some more direct and personal contact info on Holder..........

    Or are we not in that close of a relationship with him or his underlings yet????
    Last edited by Mark Cobb -ME; 09-28-2009 at 07:12 PM.

  9. Join Date
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    1,338

    Oh Billy boy Billy boy.....oh where have you been charming Billy?

    Time studies mean nothing. If they ever got to the point of doing them in a legitimate process, there is no way on this earth for 'a' study to apply to anything as there is no repeatability.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  10. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Southaven, Mississippi
    Posts
    801

    Nobody said they were ever fair

    My point about the time studies is that they went from very bad to even worse. Everybody knows the ridiculous fact that they allegedly disassembled/reassembled undamaged vehicles, now they don't even bother to either go through the motion or take the trouble to lie about it. Now we are being screwed in the missionary position instead of being assaulted from behind.
    The data providers are clearly pandering to the insurance team and no longer feel the need to hide it.......afterall, what can we do about it? I was an advocate of dumping CCC enmasse when they were caught in bed with Nationwide, not because they were any worse than the others, but because it was an opportunity to ring their bell that we spend our money with them too and can make a difference to their bottom line if they think that only what the insurance industry wants matters.
    The ambiguity of these programs is deliberate so that insurance adjusters can play the "stupid" game and isn't it amazing how every single one of them is Johnny on the spot when it comes to picking up on anything that creates a reduction in time but the same damned program can't figure out how to automatically add?

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