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Thread: Check this out read from the bottom up ...Audatex at it's finest

  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Springfield IL.

    Important to realize - The DEG is limited in their ability to do investigations of these issues as the don't even have the databases available to them. They also lack a shop, tooling or staff to do disassembly or inspection.

    They are merely a facilitator. They can only take an issue and make the phone calls and send emails on behalf of the repairer. Not many folks could have built the mound of data Mark Cobb has here - fewer still could have built that mound of data *and* have the ability to communicate it to a data provider.

    In this case Mark busted his a** and did the work. Audatex knew he had them dead to rights - and apparently he still does because they still don't have it right. Is it a wonder they'd rather deal with an entity admittedly less connected to the real data?

    I don't think they're on the take... I do think that for most folks who wouldn't take the time to communicate with the data providers - it takes exactly this kind of "partnership" to drag them the info providers into the light of day.

    Surprising I thought that Audatex wouldn't handle this with Cobb and try to keep it from being published on the DEG. Now knowing that by their own as yet incomplete admission Audatex were 26.8 "hours" or units off on this single procedure. Add another 5. for the sill extension and gosh knows how much for the impossible "roll back" of a urethaned in laminated tub...

    The DEG aren't stupid - they know the data are inaccurate. They know blend "time" is a joke... In this case - with Cobb doing all of the work that was required - DEG got some answer from them after Audatex chickened out of communicating with Mark.

    I think what it illustrates is: the best most exhaustive efforts of our industry, combined with the application of logic and reality to do the jobs that we already paid the information providers to perform, is still not enough. The DEG isn't the issue here - the data providers fraudulently concieved repair methodology and labor "assessment" is the problem.

    No matter the sentries we put in place - No matter how many times they are "caught" in outright fabrication - as admin intimates - the current data providers, as evidenced by their actions, their reticence and allegiances, are hurtling into irrelevance.

    Let's just try not to get taken with as they are dragged to the bottom.
    Last edited by Wade Ebert; 11-02-2009 at 11:19 AM.

  2. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Hey Wade, you said:

    The DEG aren't stupid - they know the data are inaccurate.

    Who are the "they" you are referring to? Doing a bit of research, and learning that as long as you pony up your sponsorship fee, you're in! We even got Jeff Hendler as a Silver member, and some Airbag Solution outfit, as a Gold sponsor.

    This sounds like a money making scheme, never actually meaning to address real issues.

    "Better to die a hero, than live a coward."
    Charles Woods, father of slain SEAL Ty Woods

  3. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Springfield IL.

    Well Pam - sponsors are donors. AASP is also a donor so some of that is your money. I may be able to get you a copy of their accounting if it is submitted to the AASP. I think it is pretty much one guy who largely interprets and communicates on behalf of repairers who haven't the time or are not keen on writing their issues. Then they publish the complaints and results. The DEG writes a newsletter, travels and promotes to encourage its use. Like our government - it ain't perfect - but it's we we have. Should we lay off trying to make it better or perform at a higher capacity? Nope. Would it be great to have a data provider built on real world data and the experience of real world technicians like Mark Cobb and Mark Pierson? Yup. Is DEG at least a step in the direction of making the world realize just how absolutely inaccurate and fraudulently applied the current systems are? Yup.

  4. Wade it brings to mind CAPA, Aftermarket parts

    I-car etc etc....

    The problem is that this industry is always having to work to make an adverse issue better...............

    The DEG is there but why can't we as repairers expect the same time and response from the data providers on our own? After all we are the consumer.....

    This just rings such as all the other issues of the past....it seems it is up to us repairers to be saddled with the cost and time to make this tool in our industry "better" and more correct...

    Like I said it saddens me as it leaves us in no different position then with where we have already been with CAPA, Aftermarket parts, Insurance bureaus, ...you name it we seem to have to fix something we didn't build or ask for in the first place and that was born only out of some premise that we don't deserve the same treatement as this entity.....

    You have to admit you said the same thing 10 and 15 years ago.....look where we are now...everything is better right? Aftermarket parts have come SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO far right.....lol.........

    When is enough enough.......

  5. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Springfield IL.

    Agreed. Honestly - from the inception I thought they'd do more. I thought they'd take the load off of us to prove the data are wrong. I thought they'd do time studies. The idea that they don't even have (even an outdated) copy of each software platform is shameful. Obviously the Data Providers don't find their questioning and interference too comfy. They won't do us all the courtesy of providing data to the DEG.

    Now someone has taken issue with Bud Center's background as being from the insurance side.

    Apparently I have to say it - and this goes for everybody here who thinks I may have been "fooled" or lost my mind because I dared suggest that the DEG does something:

    "If you don’t’ trust them because this guy is from the insurance side – by all means say so. Maybe they’ll put Roy Smalley, Mark Cobb or someone qualified in there."

    I’ll say it – “Hey Bud Center – you are from the insurance side – I do not now nor will I ever trust you." At least in any capacity where he has to choose between repairers and insurers. He may need a job again right? It's as simple as that. I prefer that a repairer (former or otherwise) run the DEG. So there ya go. This isn't a shot at Bud who I've never met and don't know - it is simply a preference that things should lean in the direction of "repairer driven". Heard that before right?

    Now - will that satisfy or shall I get a film of me saying that to his face at NACE?

    It just won't matter. The background I prefer whomever "runs" the DEG to have - simply doesn't matter. the job is there to do - but is currently limited by avaialble resources anyway. Bud Center could be every independent's best friend or he could even be Mark Cobb - but that doesn't matter because he doesn't have the resources to follow through.

    In this case here’s the crappy part – the Audatex'ers stopped responding at all to Mark Cobb - so WTF? Until he involved the DEG and their ability to publish the data discrepancies. That is a fact. So shall we thank the DEG or curse them in this case? Is there a bad guy?

    You are right Mark. We are beyond "enough is enough".

    We "have to" test the parts to prove they're inferior;
    We "have to" prove that the data providers are publishing false data and;
    We "have to" prove that they are doing it intentionally;
    We "have to" prove that we need more than someone else thinks we do every day;

    "Yes" we've all had enough of it.

    All we should "have to" do is fix cars and get paid.

    The AG thinks so too.

  6. You said it right .....not even a copy of the software

    to be found....


    1. That tells me how much the data providers really embrace this effort they can't even donate 1 copy for the good of the industry

    2. With all these donations woudl it be so far out there to think they could purchase a copy.............................

    Really think about it....I only care where they came from when they need to testify.......frankly I have seen so much incest in this industry through the years that nothing would surprise me anymore.....

    But if this is really for the good of the industry ......no software?????

    So really they are just an information gatherer and as for Audatex stopping their communcation with me.......Ha.....that will be addressed at a later date as soon as I finalize some of this stuff...........you see that inquiry process is open to all....not just the DEG......I will get my information....no it did not take the DEG to get this.......although I am sure they will embrace it as theirs........It will be the industries soon enough....soon enough.....

  7. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Not just from the "insurance side"....

    ...but from insurance right into CCC.

    Center started his career in the automotive industry more than 24 years ago
    as a technician, then spent several years on the insurance side of the collision repair industry before joining CCC where he played a key role in implementing and managing their Collision Center Connection program. He spent the last 10 years working for a large collision repair consolidator and the last eight years as a district manager responsible for multiple service centers.
    "Better to die a hero, than live a coward."
    Charles Woods, father of slain SEAL Ty Woods

  8. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    That's what we need,

    more facilitators. Not that we don't have enough already. I am sure these folks are as pure as the driven snow. However, how come when a shop owner does take the time he gets no answer and they do?

    Hell, Cobb pays for the subscription....I would call it a prescription for screwing yourself but anyhow...he has all the rights as a purchaser to demand response to legitimate questions; they have none.

    So, tell me how this works again and whose to benefit????

    Hell yes I am very skeptical. If for no other reason they think that enough complaints will do some good out of how many hundreds of thousands of inaccuracies.

    The damned things are junk and ought to be banned. They can NEVER make them even close to accurate.....it is impossible.

  9. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Southaven, Mississippi

    Everbody is beating their chests

    about things we already knew. The software we subscribe to is pure fiction, is decidedly slanted to favor the insurance side, and you can raise all the hell you want, but they ain't changin'. None of this is by accident.
    Stop to consider that this is all about money and power....nothing else. We, as shop owners are taken for granted by the software providers and are not in the position to make a buying decision that will get their attention, so they could care less what we think or if we don't care to buy their product; they don't cater to us.
    If everyone on this forum got together and decided to dump a specific software provider, they could care less. However, it only takes one insurance executive to say, "You know, that software provider isn't really doing things that are to our benefit, so I think we will just dump them and go to someone who looks out for us." Can you imagine all the butt kissing to keep that from happening?
    A handful of people have influenced the software providers to keep things tilted in their direction and it will always stay that way because it is all about who puts the most money in their pockets. They don't even bother to act like their product is fair and objective anymore. We are a captive audience and they know it because we can never gather enough power to get their attention. It would take hundreds of us getting together to gather enough buying power to influence them and we would have to be able to hurt them financially more than just one insurance executive. Does anyone visualize that ever happening?
    The DEG for all it's faults is the only forum we have available to resolve issues and in the final analysis, it is still up to the software provider whether they choose to pay any attention to them or not. Until something happens to release the stranglehold the insurance industry has on ours, I don't see that changing.

  10. Join Date
    Jan 2009

    You're so right Bill.

    But maybe the software providers would pay attention to the Attorney General of the United States?

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