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Thread: There is only one solution

  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    There is only one solution

    Not that it will ever be used.

    Being a card carrying fossil, opinionated, hard headed whose opinions have become boring.....even to me, it occurred to me again, that those who will not take a look at recent history are willing to take it on using the same old failed strategy.

    One only has to think back as recently as say, 20 years ago, compare the circumstances for repairers to conclude whether or not there have been fundamental changes in the relationship between the three parties; consumer, repairer and insurer. Sure there have been changes that I would characterize as window dressing, but has there been any fundamental change?

    Of course not.

    The paths that are consistently followed by those opposing insurer control and that includes any and all legal attempts, that being the only real available voice for repairers, are the same that have failed in the past. Sure there have been a couple or three possibly, settlements in the past 20 years that have resulted in some sort of restitution. But has there been any change in the relationship where the advantage has accrued to the repairer?


    Of course not.

    So here we are today using the same strategy that might achieve a consolation for a few after a long and arduous battle. And nothing will change for all the strategies used in the past and currently as far as I can see, follow the same path and ignore the noose around the neck of repairers. And fall into the same traps over, and over and over; steering, short pays are two clear examples of traps. Steering will eventually fail for any number of reasons. But short pays, not paying, incomplete payments and so forth as a basis for claimed damages will more than likely result in complete, utter defeat for the repairer industry.

    And why is that? Because it uses the noose around the neck of repairers that, rather than exposed for what it really is, employs the noose to justify their complaint.


    FROM 2 YEARS AGO DEG STRING AND PROBABLY THE SAME 5 YEARS BEFORE THAT. I think it is time to fold the tent and move on.



    If nothing else, this long thread about a very complicated subject, when distilled down shows the causes for failures to rectify the long standing control (abuse, disenfranchisement, whatever you want to call it) insurers have, increasingly, exercised over repairs performed by a myriad of industries. None are more pervasive or more affecting of a wide swath of businesses and individuals than the repair of automobiles. It has long been popular to blame the collision industry itself for allowing this to happen. And that is part of the problem exacerbated, by the use by the industry, of the very controls the insurer employs with the most critical the use of the pricing model that determines how the collision industry prices their production. This is and will be fatal flaw to any effort to challenge the guts of insurance control. This has been said many times, many ways and although obvious it appears to have no influence upon repairers, and equally important, those seeking through legal means to help resolve the issue.

    As long as I have watched the evolution of control, no matter the effort by legal means, no matter the resources poured into those efforts, all seem to insist on overly complicating the real issue at hand with a myriad of complaints that have no real potential for effective resolution, while avoiding that real, and singular issue. Certainly those issues like steering, market manipulation and reallocation are important, but resolution of those issues require unassailable proof of damages, impossible to factually express, if for no other reason, by using the pricing model of the insurance industry. What is left is the continuation of the very cause of destruction of independence by all repairers. The data.
    Last edited by Roy Smalley; 12-22-2017 at 09:07 AM.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  2. Join Date
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    Short pays do not work very well if the shop demands payment in full for all services rendered upon delivery of the car.
    It is amazing that a highly trained and staffed business takes more time to authorize payment than it takes to repair the car.

    When the customer is notified that payment is just like the grocery store, (COD) they make sure the money is there when the car is ready.

    And short pays? what do you mean you won't pay for my accident, I paid the full deductible!

    Why would anyone wait for payment after working hard for their money?

  3. Join Date
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    Southaven, Mississippi
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    You have touched on the key to a beginning to affect change, Roger. Consumer awareness and involvement in the decision making where the reimbursement they are entitled to is concerned has the potential to alter the current status quo. If the shop takes the time to stress the importance of consumer awareness and what can happen if they surrender that decision making process to the shop that the insurance company intimidates and coerces into sacrificing consumer safety in deference to cost mitigation, consumers have the power to ensure full indemnification where shops never will. Only when shops sit the customer down, go over what has to be done to the vehicle and why and let them negotiate directly with the insurance company, will anything change. We have traditionally called ourselves providing a customer service by stepping into their shoes to shield them from aggravation in the distasteful negotiation process, believing that the repair process is far too complicated for them to understand sufficiently to negotiated in their own behalf. This has empowered insurance companies to vilify any shop that actually attempts to advocate for the customer and the customer has no reason not to believe them. They cannot wrap their heads around the scope and extent of the conspiracy without seeing it up close and personally. Let the customer get the same bull$#1t excuses and threats that we have and things will change.

  4. Join Date
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    In the case of the shop demanding payment upon delivery of the car, the ins company tells the customer that the charges are to high and will not pay, how is the shop to reply?

    By explaining that they were chosen by the owner to place the car back in pre accident condition as close as possible, and the charges are correct and based on the repairs needed even if the ins. company guesses differently.

    Their "standard repair costs" are based on an average estimate, according to their opinion, not the actual cost based upon the damages to the car in question and the expectation of the customer.

    Their refusal to pay, is the reason that they can not pick up their car when it is ready for delivery.

    Notice that I did not mention labor rate as a factor in the repair. If I were able to repair any accident in one day, that certainly would justify a higher rate, if time were the major factor in repairs.
    Last edited by Roger Walling; 12-15-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  5. Join Date
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    What the insurance company will and will not pay is between the vehicle owner and the insurance company. Going over the repair procedure, step by step, complete with written manufacturer explanations gives the vehicle owner all the information they should need to deal with the insurance company on their own: it's their money not yours. Shops, if they are to survive, must break the habit of debating with the insurance company to shield the customer from what actually transpires. Just let the insurance company try to ignore the manufacturer procedures you have provided the customer and try to make them believe the manufacturer is wrong, they are right and you are the problem because you won't sacrifice passenger safety to save the insurance company money, that "you're the only one".

    The recent document released by Mississippi's Attorney General details what constitutes a "proper repair" and gives the shop a virtual slam dunk when dealing with customers. It is really very easy if a shop has the good sense and the courage to actually use it. It clearly states that, by law, the vehicle owner is entitled to a proper repair, "proper" being further defined as following manufacturer procedure. The customer is told, "I will not violate the law or compromise your safety to save an insurance company money. The shop that your insurance company wants you to patronize, as well as many other shops will. I can and will defend all my charges while the insurance company cannot possibly defend their refusal to comply with the law. I will also give you a written statement that I will follow manufacturer procedure and challenge to to get any other shop you might consider dealing with to do the same. You will quickly see that I am, indeed, the only one." The same approach can be used even in the absence of such a document from your state's A.G.
    Last edited by Bill; 12-17-2017 at 02:09 PM.

  6. Join Date
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    To the shops reading this forum;


    You are saying to yourself, "Yea, just try that in my area and see what happens'.

    There are so many suggestions made here that if you just put one, even one, into your estimate, you will be surprised that it may work.

    Is your rate posted on the wall? Most appraisers will take a picture of mine and pay the rate because it is posted.

    Do you charge for damaged parts disposal? What would the appraiser say if you said that you will put them in the trunk when you are done?

    Storage charges, misc. paint and sandpaper, washing the car for delivery, sand and nib paint, blend to match, adj headlights, and many, many more procedures were never paid for before shops began to demand them.

    I once had an appraiser tell me that he would not pay for a full pint of lacquere because I will be using the rest of it on another car! I fought for it and got it!

    You will never get paid for anything that you don't charge for!
    Last edited by Roger Walling; 12-18-2017 at 11:18 AM.

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