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  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    1,350

    Something new every day

    I missed this new association back in January. "SCRS and Michell" now associated. I particularly like this phrase "........ Database Enhancement Gateway, which works with information providers like Mitchell to answer repairer and insurer questions about the nuances and intricacies of their estimating systems".

    "Nuances and intricacies"? Wow.

    Again, after many years I must ask again, "why does a third party get involved with 'asking questions' about 'nuances and intricacies' when there is neither"? Better question would be "why do IP's exist at all"? Apparently SCRS, lets not let them forget, a body shop association.....still...doesn't have a clue, or are afraid to ask.....their new associate.

    Let's see now. How many decades has this charade being going on, and now we have progressed to discussing "nuances and intricacies"?

    The worst decision I ever made in my long life was to get into collision repair. The best was when I got out. But I am still pissed at the lack of backbone shown by collision repair "leaders".


    http://www.repairerdrivennews.com/20...rtners-in-80s/
    Last edited by Roy Smalley; 11-27-2017 at 10:33 AM.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  2. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Southaven, Mississippi
    Posts
    808

    Despite all the "nuances and intricacies", I am not aware of a single example of the DEG adjusting a "recommended" repair time downward. With over 10,000 inquiries about inadequate times or missing procedures, what credibility can any of the IPs claim and why would SCRS embrace them? I agree with you, Roy. Despite the trade affording me a handsome living over the years, the dignity associated with any degree of craftsmanship and pride in accomplishment is all but gone. All the meat is off the bones and scraps are all that remain. I can't say the trade wasn't personally gratifying when I entered it almost 50 years ago but Im so very glad I am no longer counting on it for my living. Toward the end of my career, I spent more time trying to be fairly paid than fixing wrecks. I just wish my oldest son had listened to me when I aggressively advised him not to try to follow in my footsteps.
    Last edited by Bill; 11-27-2017 at 07:04 PM.

  3. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,350

    Bill, the DEG string started September 25, 2009 by Cobb. An issue that has troubled me from day one, one among many, is how come IP's respond to the DEG who do not contract for the service is able to get answers when shops that purchase through contract, cannot? As the years have worn on, perhaps they have helped someone somewhere with 10000 inquiries, but goodness, how many hundreds of millions of individual transactions taken place and 10000 queries?

    Frankly and I am distanced from what goes on today, but a question. What has the DEG, backed by two or three body shop associations really accomplished for the industry? Has there been any real, statistically supported evidence of substantive change in amounts received, much less in the way all pricing is controlled thru the IP? Or is the DEG just window dressing, but for what purpose? Yes, perhaps, there is enough retained data in DEG that shows the before and after, despite being minuscule compared to transactions, but how many years and tens, probably hundreds of millions of dollars go to benefit those that profit from the IP's does it take?

    Speaking of Cobb. He did stay after the DEG for a long time. There is another attempt that I believe he was the very first to start in a formal fashion, and that is the list of Not Included Operations that he shared on ProD. Now that list has been expanded and used by many without any idea of where it started. He deserves the credit. When he began to move away from collision into other areas, our industry lost a true innovator, and leader. But Cobb doesn't suffer fools very well..............


    http://www.repairerdrivennews.com/20...with-insurers/ A big thank you should go to Cobb........... and Mark Pierson

    BHOM opinions of course......
    Last edited by Roy Smalley; 12-06-2017 at 12:02 AM.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  4. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,350

    Received a email this morning regarding another mention of DEG that raised another question in my mind.

    Has the DEG by its' actions taken in good will, become a component of the notion that the IP's are THE way to determine the cost of doing business, and pricing of production by repairers?

    The IP issue is not one of a bit here and and a bit there; is it a question of the legality of the uniform approach for repairers to use to establish a price they charge in interstate commerce?
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  5. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Southaven, Mississippi
    Posts
    808

    There are two sides the the DEG coin, the first having established that the times prescribed and the operations necessary, as advocated by the 3 IPs, are often woefully inadequate if not downright wrong, always in the favor of insurance companies. Second, as you suggest, the involvement of DEG and the responses from the IPs, tend to validate the current status quo where the information provided by the IPs are the "Bible" from which repair times and procedures are obtained. How can the obvious contradictions be accepted and continue? Shops have been groomed over the years to believe there is no other way, allowing insurance companies to control the pricing before the accident even occurs, an observation made by a very wise man on this very forum.

  6. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ma.
    Posts
    485

    The biggest fraud that I can see with the data times is that they assume that every mechanic is familiar with every car and has done the operation many times to fine tune this time.

    Even then, there is a big difference in repairing a car in New England in the winter V/S sunny California.

    What's more, it is an average time that cheats each mechanic on both ends of the average by not accounting on his skill or experience.

    One other fine point, where is there time for coffee and bathroom breaks and cleanup time . I pay the man for 8 hours and get, at best, 7 hours work. We work in the real world, not in a estimated data base book.

    Right about now, someone will mention beating Flat Rate. Would you want a worker cutting corners on your car to beat the time? (How else can he beat the time if the listed time is a real true time?
    Last edited by Roger Walling; 12-01-2017 at 08:55 PM.

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