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Thread: Just to stir the pot, a question

  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Just to stir the pot, a question

    So, to those that think they have the answers I will pose one.


    What legally recognized authority do you posses in your invoice files, that gave you authority to discuss an insured/claimant insurance claim with the insurance company?
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  2. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ma.
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    476

    Unfortunately, Ma. law, 212 CMR 2.04 requires it.



    "(e) Determination of Damage and Cost of Repairs. The appraiser shall specify all damage
    attributable to the accident, theft, or other incident in question and shall also specify any
    unrelated damage. If the appraiser determines that preliminary work or repairs would
    significantly improve the accuracy of the appraisal, he or she shall authorize the preliminary
    work or repair with the approval of the claimant and shall complete the appraisal after that work
    has been done. The appraisers representing the insurance company and the registered repair
    shop selected by the insured to do the repair shall attempt to agree on the estimated cost for
    such repairs.
    The registered repair shop must prepare an appraisal for the purpose of
    negotiation. No appraiser shall modify any published manual (i.e., Motors, Mitchell or any
    automated appraisal system) without prior negotiation between the parties. Manufacturer
    warranty repair procedures, I-Car, Tec Cor and paint manufacturer procedures may also apply.
    Further, no appraiser shall use more than one manual or system for the sole purpose of gaining
    an advantage in the negotiation process."

    If either party refuses, they may be charged with "failure to negotiate".

    NOTE , Negotiations can be for a higher price than the other party, while the other party tries to negotiate down.
    Last edited by Roger Walling; 09-16-2017 at 02:37 PM.

  3. Join Date
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    You must be the only one......

    The failure here is that the body shop industry in Maine was is and remains asleep at the wheel. And lacks the intestinal fortitude to challenge.

    Anyhow, the fact is nearly every body shop in the US of A does negotiate. Without authority. Pitiful old story oft repeated. Yep. Repairers are their own worst enemy.
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  4. Join Date
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    Location
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    Ma. is the initials of Massachusetts.

    And you are right about the shops, They continue to "work" with the ins. companies.

    Even members of the association brag about their compliance with them.

    At one time I was a member, and I had an "approved" estimate on a car that was later repaired at another shop
    (that I sent it to) . He knowingly repaired it for 20% less, as he was, "working with the ins. company".

  5. Join Date
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    Heck fuzzy, hoped you would have missed that. I need an editor before I push the button.......

    But, and I believe this is a fact. Repairers have no right, and in most cases, cannot bargain in the place of the vehicle owner, as insurers cannot bargain with property rights belonging to the insured/claimant beyond the policy in the case of insureds. Not third party, but they do the same things anyhow. Insurers have some right to make decisions but they are described in the policy, although abused mightily. The primary example is when they exercise their options to pay for repair, replace or take control and actually repair the vehicle. As far as I can tell, repairers have no rights whatsoever, yet, they continue. From a technical stand point it is very difficult to understand how something can be so wrong and be universally accepted.

    I can think of nothing in the interchange between insurers and repairers that meets a legally defensible standard. Insurers are not contracting for the repairs; they have no other rights than that in the policy and I don't read "negotiate" with repairers anywhere in a policy, ....except there are possibly some states like Ma. not ME. Divide and allocate markets; assume property rights; no contract; establish that repairers must use an estimating system in order to get paid anything at all which requires that every little bitty operation has to be identified; establish repair methods that must be followed and those that won't be paid under any circumstance; establish pricing for labor parts materials that repairers must use all they while, accumulating all the information that flows to them from the repairers and in turn use that information to justify the methods they use as well as future pricing along with analytics. About as good a scam as can be built, as the evidence shows everyone believes it to be correct. My opinions of course but who can argue other than to say "that is just the way it is".


    It is safe to say there is not another group of players anywhere that comes close. Except politicians and they are ruled by folks like this........
    Roy Smalley,
    Texas

  6. Join Date
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    Location
    Ma.
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    Roy, in your last post you wrote "establish pricing for labor parts materials that repairers must use all they while"

    The part about parts price makes me think of the line that they use,

    "Here is a list of shops that will repair your car for our price"


    I liken that to trying to buy a beer at the ballpark and they want $7.00 for one.
    If you complain, they hand you a list of Mom and Pop variety stores within a 15 mile area where you can buy one at your price. (:-)

  7. Join Date
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    Location
    Ma.
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    Just to stir the pot, an other question

    Who sets the cost of the damage on a highly modified car?

    Who sets the cost of the damage on a Rolls Royce

    Who sets the cost of the damage on a chain saw?

    Who sets the cost of the repair on your transmission?

    Are there any businessman running body shops?

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