Waterborne basecoat

[tom rodman]

Anyone know whats going on with this? I have a BASF mixing station that I'm considering restocking to mix my own paint again, but I dont want to spend the money if their going to make me stop using solvent borne paint.
Also, whats up with the primer, waterborne primer on bare metal? Water+ metal =Rust....
Sorry I'm uninformed but i've been working the shop alone for most of the last 2 years..... I'm tired:confused:

[MarkFP]

Tom, the undercoats and clears are still solvent based, it is only the base that is waterborne... anyway, some around us have converted over and all is not perfect... I'm going to wait as I remember when DuPont called us stupid for not jumping on the Cronar bandwagon! :eek:

I don't think you have to worry about being "forced" to convert anytime soon, even a few of our jobbers are telling us to sit back a couple of years and see how this thing works out.

[Bill]

Profit is why waterborne is being pushed in some areas. I use Glasurit and my rep has been pushing waterbornes heavily. When pinned down, he admits that it is about 20% more expensive to use and requires more air movement and heat in the booth to dry.
At a time when it is difficult to generate a profit on materials, with huge cost increases each year and our friends on the insurance side acting like materials are a naturally occuring phenomenon that cost us nothing, how does one justify knowingly taking on a 20% increase in cost up front plus either buying new spray equipment or retrofittting you current spray booth for greater air movement and facing greater energy costs to accomodate it? Where does the money come from to pay for all this?
I have tried invoicing materials to overcome capping and to offset frequent cost increases, but my good friends on the insurance side counter with the "everybody else" line of B.S.. Since "everybody else" is a sniveling bunch of cowards that can't see their P&L sheets from their current ankle grabbing position, I intend to wait until the very last moment to convert.
All the paint manufacturers are whining about losing market share to generics but they are the same backstabbers that helped to promote DRP's behind our backs and wouldn't anger their "insurance partners" by helping to counter our losses on the materials we purchased from them by educating their buddies about proper procedure and naterials expense. Let them convince their "partners" that materials costs are increasing and help us to collect a reasonable amount for our materials and I'm in. Until then, I'll wait until "everybody else" is using it.

[Tommy]

We use Glasurit waterborne. At first we had problems with a dry, seedy texture until we learned how to properly mix it. The BASF instructions were wrong.

I asked my painter today what he thought of waterborne. He said he will never go back to solvent based again.

[Raul]

We use Glasurit waterborne. At first we had problems with a dry, seedy texture until we learned how to properly mix it. The BASF instructions were wrong.
I asked my painter today what he thought of waterborne. He said he will never go back to solvent based again.

As I understand, if the temperature of the base product changes rapidly, and even if it does not freeze, it is ruined. I have to imagine that our friends that have high humid conditions part of the year are going to see funky results also.

[Tim]

We use PPG. I have asked to be converted several time over the last two years and have been met with opposition by my jobber each time, The last time, just a couple of weeks ago I was told that even though the product was rolled out in central and south Florida it has been recalled due to technical difficulties.

My jobber says that we will not be switching anytime soon.

My brother works for Valspar and he says the same thing.

An interesting side note is that I have been told that adding ammonia to the mix aides in dry time /cure in cold weather and also in humid conditions... anyone else hear that?

I still like my waterborne primer. The one we use is a 3M product and is flexible designed for bumper repairs. Sprays like house paint, levels out OK and has a very high build. It can be used as a barrier coat over sensitive surfaces and will prevent lift and wrinkle one sometimes gets over uncatilyzed materials.

KISS, Keep it simple stupid... something I learned back in dive school.

[Truman]

We use Glasurit waterborne. At first we had problems with a dry, seedy texture until we learned how to properly mix it. The BASF instructions were wrong.

I asked my painter today what he thought of waterborne. He said he will never go back to solvent based again.

We use PPG and while it has it's own set of problems as any other type, we really like it.

[tom rodman]

We get scorching humid summers and freezing winters. I cant help but get the feeling that applying waterbased HOUSE PAINT to someones car is going to be a loser. The learning curve is going to be long and expensive.
If waterborne ever gets forced on me I'm having my paint rep paint the first 3 jobs, and i'm having him DELIVER the car to my customer....I think thats how all shops should handle the switch to waterborne... if the job goes bad my paint rep can re-do it for nothing.....:D

[Truman]

We get scorching humid summers and freezing winters. I cant help but get the feeling that applying waterbased HOUSE PAINT to someones car is going to be a loser. The learning curve is going to be long and expensive.
If waterborne ever gets forced on me I'm having my paint rep paint the first 3 jobs, and i'm having him DELIVER the car to my customer....I think thats how all shops should handle the switch to waterborne... if the job goes bad my paint rep can re-do it for nothing.....:D

Waterborne has been in used in Europe for close to 3 decades. Many manufacturers use it now and have been for a long while.

I don't know where you got this misinformation but you may want to try it instead of misunderstand it. No big learning curve at all. We didn't even have to make any super big upgrades to be able to shoot it. In fact, because of the switch to water, we found out about alot of problems in our air system that was causing us problems with solvent based.

I'll never look back.